Time for... *sigh* Star Wars Rise of Skywalker talk (Spoilers)

So 4 years ago I created the Star Wars Force Awakens review topic with wide eyed hope and passion for a bright future in the world of Star Wars... 2 years later, someone else took over my place and created the Star Wars Last Jedi review topic...

Now I'm back with grumpy bitterness to put the triliogy of reviews in the grave after a deviation from my original ideals for Star Wars in this Rise of Skywalker review... Sound fimiliar to something else? Well, you see... its just like poetry... it rhymes... ¬.¬


After my comments in the last jedi review, you might be thinking... "But Kelsea... I thought that you were implying that you might not see the last film". Yes, my desire to see the film was at about 2% come release day... I was more excited to see the reviews and angry rants then I was to see the film. A friend of mine however really wanted to see it with me... The bad reviews on youtube got us both a little curious as to how bad it could be... I put my foot down and said that I would not pay to see the film or let anyone else pay for me, which gave him an opening... If he could figure out a way that we could see it without paying for it.. Then he'd have my company to watch the film. So, he took up on the internet and after a little searching, he found it...

Completely legal instructions on how to make a time machine...
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>.>
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After a quick time skip forwards 2 years, we were able to sit down to watch the Rise of Skywalker when it was released to TV... I did say however that if I was not enjoying it, I could play the "Time travel to end of movie" card and we'd just skip through...


I can't really review the movie properly cause a certain *something* happened about 5-10 mins into the film and I played the time skip card... My friend calmed me down and convinced me to keep watching.. But then about 30-40 mins into the film a certain *something else* happened and I played the timeskip card again... upon which time we jumped into the time machine and just time skipped past sections of the movie in quick succession in our time machine. The can assure you that the time travel looked awesome while we were doing it, but also raised some alarming questions like: How were we able to carelessly skip through multiple time locations when traveling through time "ain't like dusting crops boy" ? And to the people asking those questions, I say "Just sit down, switch your brain off and don't ask any questions!"

Anyway, we arrived at the end of the film, saw the conclussion and then filled in the gasp in what we missed with reviews afterwards. So I can't give a "Verified" review of the film. This is just a few points and snarks

Of what I saw, I thought it was better than the last jedi (but as I consider the last jedi to be the anti christ... Its kinda like me saying that the rise of skywalker was better than a kick in the balls)... However there are a number of things that happen in this movie that will boil the piss quite a few fans and I got annoyed enough with it that at one point my friend had to ask if I was ok. I found it funny that JJ Abrams seemed to try and diss the last jedi, but did it in a way that "From a certain point of view" could be seen as complimenting the last jedi... Cause, well, the downside of making a diversive film in a big franchise is that then the future films will have to stretch and work really hard to please both sides Rian Johnson ¬.¬  Creating a situation where you have to both honour and fix the previous film... JJ really did try to extend the olive branch though and I didn't feel like the director hated me while watching the film, so I guess thats a plus

The force powers got way out of hand.. As well as the fleet sizes for that matter when you consider how many ships each side had left over in the last jedi.... It was kinda like JJ Abrams figured that the way to make the finale grandiose was to just make everything BIGGER than anything that had come before it...

They saw Yoda lift an x-wing out of a swamp before...
WELL HOW ABOUT PALPATINE LIFTS STAR DESTROYS OUT OF ICE?!?!

They saw small fleet of fighters take on a space station in multiple films now...
WELL HOW ABOUT WE SEE A FLEET OF FIGHTERS TAKE ON 10,000 STAR DESTROYERS!!?!?!?!

They saw a tug of war with a lightsaber in the last jedi...
WELL HOW ABOUT A TUG OF WAR WITH A SPACE SHIP WITH EXPLOSIVE CONSEQUENCES?!?!!

Hyperdrive works conviently as quickly as the director wants it too for any scene... I saw at least two parts where someone was like: "Hey you're over there... well I'm coming to get you.." Then 2 minutes later "I'm here bitch!". This along with the last jedi is the second time I've had major questions about how space travel works in Star Wars, it was something that I never questioned in the originals or even the prequels... So they must be doing something wrong there...

The film takes place in break neck speed cause they had to try and get a lot done in the film... even if you don't like the film, I guess you could say you won't get bored. I think they would have been better off biting the bullet and just making 2 films, some would have complained that they were dragging it out or that it was a money grab... But they could have used the first film to actually set up stuff and build anticipation for certain resolutions that would then have taken place in the last film.

None of the big points, deaths or possible deaths hit for me (except the Chewie fake out... but that was more because I would have been so pissed if that was the way he went out, not cause I was legitimately worried).. I just felt kinda numb to all the characters, which is a shame cause JJ Abrams at least put them all together this time and they seemed to be having seem fairly good interactions

Apparently the Emperor can survive being thrown down an open shaft hundreds of feet deep, blowing up in an explosion of darkside energy, having the death star blow up around him, the vaccum of space and re-entry into what ever planet his body came across... because "The dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities, some considered to be... unnatural" ...But that power ain't so good for stopping firing electricity when its bouncing off your intended target and hitting you... I guess its like peeing, onces you start you can't stop even if you are getting some splash back...

And if Rey can just take the name Skywalker.. Hell, I'm legally changing my last name to Mandela, cause thats who I identify with ¬.¬

So there's my incoherent, unstructured, not well planned review/thoughts on the Rise of Skywalker... A bit like this film and the whole sequel trilogy really... But hey... its just like poetry... it rhym- SHUT UP LUCAS!!


At least I still have the Mandalorian... Of course Disney plus doesn't come out in the UK until March, its just damn lucky I got myself a time machine isn't it?!

I am not a Disney hater. Quite the contrary to be honest, they often release movies I really like to watch.

But with Star Wars, they just blew it. Like Warner Bros did with Batman v. Superman(although I am really curious how they managed to blow that, nerdgasms should have been rampant when it was only announced)the Justice League and most certainly will with Matrix 4.

The logical failures are too severe, the new characters are too muddled and badly built up, the heroic feeling just isn´t there for me. They pick up a plot, then they drop it because of...reasons. Inappropriate feminism and leftism. It is also too ommercialized on all fronts.

Of course you could argue that I have tinted glasses on for the first three movies, but I also had that feeling for Episode 2 and 3, and to a lesser degree, also for episode 1. The newest three movies are basically the last hoorah of the old generation and some bystanders who also happen to be part of the movie but nobody really cares for. That would have been nice for one movie, but in this case it is merely the long drawn dying of the thing you loved when you were young and that actually depresses me instead of making me want to watch for more.

@Kelsea
Maybe it will comfort you a little the Joda explained in Episode 5 that the size of levitated objects does not matter for the force user, only his control with the force. Of course you can under this narrative ask why the Emperor took the pain on himself to raise several students if he was already capable of doing that, but tihs is the price you have to pay in general when you drift into the world of big destruction.

God, this new trilogy is ridiculous.

For all the ballyhoo around J.J. Abrams, all he wanted to do with his trilogy was just copy and paste the old trilogy. He did nothing new or worthwhile in either of his films.

I'm not saying The Last Jedi was a great movie, it has serious issues, but I do feel like Rian Johnson, for all his politics that he threw in, was trying to make a Star Wars film for todays generation. Something that today's generation can look at and be like "Yeah, that's OUR star wars, this is OUR trilogy, not just the boomer/gen x people."

and then JJ came back and was like "FUCK Rian Johnson! Star Wars is for old people! We gotta make sure the old people are happy!" and so not only did he once again completely rip off a previous Star Wars for his movie, but he went out of his way to try and shit on and retcon as much of the previous movie as possible.

That's fucking stupid. The fucking franchise itself can't make up its goddamn mind if it wants to appeal to a newer, modern audience or if it just wants to suck up to the same people who saw Star Wars in the 70's.

Palpatine being back is fucking stupid and makes no sense and has no point. It's also never explained.

Rey being Palpatines granddaughter is fucking STUPID. Then she just randomly takes the name of Skywalker at the end? That's also dumb.

Just...ugh, so much dumb. Ben Solo is pointless in this, Poe is pointless, Leah, whose actress wasn't even alive to film this, gets her ass kissed more than needed, nothing makes sense, Finn is the most pointless character in this entire franchise...and just...yeah...I'ma just say it.

Fuck Star Wars Movies ya'll. Fuck em.

Watch The Mandalorian. It's 8 episodes are better than all 11 movies.

Old_Man_Tai wrote:

I'm not saying The Last Jedi was a great movie, it has serious issues, but I do feel like Rian Johnson, for all his politics that he threw in, was trying to make a Star Wars film for todays generation. Something that today's generation can look at and be like "Yeah, that's OUR star wars, this is OUR trilogy, not just the boomer/gen x people."

and then JJ came back and was like "FUCK Rian Johnson! Star Wars is for old people! We gotta make sure the old people are happy!" and so not only did he once again completely rip off a previous Star Wars for his movie, but he went out of his way to try and shit on and retcon as much of the previous movie as possible.

That's fucking stupid. The fucking franchise itself can't make up its goddamn mind if it wants to appeal to a newer, modern audience or if it just wants to suck up to the same people who saw Star Wars in the 70's.

In general, I agree with your post, but not with this section. You can tell a story that is as old as the world to modern people and make it both classic and modern.

The movie Joker is a prime example for this, a movie that is bound to be a classic that overshines even such great movies like Batman: Dark Knight and the first Batman from 1989. Joaquin Phoenix, who I usually don´t like because he plays in movies I don´t like, is fucking brilliant as both a broken, desperate man who sincerely tries to be good and a calculating lunatic who gives a damn about nearly everyone and everything. But if you are really honest, the movie is Falling Down(1993) all over again. You can see how one sensitive person in both movies could have easily tipped the scale back into normality up to a certain point with some gentle words, an apology or by simply leaving the other alone. Both movies are essentially capitalism and unchecked free society critiques, and they are 26 years apart. I personally can suffer more with Michael Douglas than with Joaquin Phoenix because I dislike clowns and find the idea of someone wanting to be a clown for a living ridiculous, but it does not take away anything from the performance of Phoenix who just has to get an oscar for this.

The new movies just lack the passion the older ones had. A cameo appearance of the old guard would have been fully sufficient to avoid that the dominant question in my mind was not if Rey would lead the forces of light but what would happen with my childhood heroes.
Then I also simply don´t find a reason to root for the alliance and or Rey. Both are neither morally or empathically superior to the empire or the first order in the last trilogy. I don´t care if moral rudeness is modern, Star Wars shouldn´t be like that. It is a luxury a movie like Joker can afford, but not a story about heroism.

Harrier wrote:@Kelsea
Maybe it will comfort you a little the Joda explained in Episode 5 that the size of levitated objects does not matter for the force user, only his control with the force. Of course you can under this narrative ask why the Emperor took the pain on himself to raise several students if he was already capable of doing that, but tihs is the price you have to pay in general when you drift into the world of big destruction.

No, no it doesn't comfort me... cause these new films make me question what Yoda said and not in an intelligent way... If you say size matters not, and lifting an x-wing is the same as lifting star destroyers... why is it then no different from changing the course direction of an asteroid? or pulling a planet out of orbit? All of which could have the same effect of the death star lasers that he seems obsessed with building...

Size (or more importantly mass) DOES matter... however if you have enough control over the force, you can overcome certain size/mass barriers within reason..

But that was not the only problem with that particular scene... there was also the question of
-Why would you burry 10,000 odd star destroyers under ice
-Were there crew in them ship while they were burried under ice for however many years
-How did you get the resources to build that amount of ships
-How did you get the crew

It all came across as rather silly


I agree with most of what Tai said... however I don't believe Rian Johnson was trying to make a Star Wars for a new generation... The last jedi ended up being more like the empire strikes back than the rise of skywalker was like return of the jedi... Rian Johnson had other reasons for making the film the way he did, his obsession for subverting expectation... And he achieved  that by turning all the possible storyline threads into red herrins. Great! Most things that were subtly hinted at in the Force Awakens comes to nought and then you didn't add anything yourself... A real film Jesus ¬.¬

Its like JJ Abrams came in with the Force Awakens and did *his* obsession... Create mystery boxes... whats in it? no one knows.. not even JJ Abrams... Maybe its a lightsaber? Maybe its the plans to the death star? what could it be?!! keep watching to find out...
Then Rian Johnson came along, opened the mystery box and showed the audience that not only were they wrong about what might be in it, but that there was nothing in it at all.. *cough*
So when JJ Abrams came back and had to produce something without any mystery boxes to work with, when he's notoriously bad at ending stuff... well, we got the rise of skywalker

Storyline wise Rian Johnson snookered JJ Abrams... But the real person to blame is the leadship, Kathleen Kennedy. She allowed all of that to happen... She decided that it would be ok to bring in different directors with different visions cause Star Wars is too big to fail... And she must of at least agreed that the way to capture the old audience was to rehash the old films... See the problem isn't that they were trying to make the films for the old audience, the problem was the way they excuted their plan and what they *thought* the old fans wanted. The Mandalorian has capture both new and old audiences *without* rehashing entire films from Star Wars... All it would have taken was a little thought and passion and the Star Wars sequel trilogy could have rivaled Infinity Wars and Endgame

I have so many negative feelings about this movie. Was it the worse one in the entire series? No, that still belongs to episode 8. Because as bad as episode 9 is, I can sort of just ignoring everything and enjoy the movie. That being said, it's still not a good movie. The entire sequels feel like it just a big F U to the other series. Let's ignore all the lore that has been built up and ignore any sort of establish rules. I mean I could just go on a rant on how bad all these movies are.

Though I think the main problem is Kathleen Kennedy. What should have happened is we should have gotten one single solid idea for the entire sequel trilogy. We should have had one guy overviewing the entire thing and making sure it made sense. Instead, we got two different directors trying to do their own thing and conflicting with each other. Then Kathleen goes around saying some pretty stupid stuff like "The Force is Female." No, the force is not female, it's not male, the force is the force. But that is not the worse thing she has said. She said that Star Wars movies were hard to make and I quote: “Every one of these movies is a particularly hard nut to crack. There’s no source material. We don’t have comic books. We don’t have 800-page novels. We don’t have anything other than passionate storytellers who get together and talk about what the next iteration might be.”

Hey, did you check your trash bin? You know the trash bin where you threw out the entire extended universe, full of comics, 800-page novels and stuff? I know it feels like I am just ranting and all but I feel these contributed heavily into why this last movie ended up being so bad.

I do not blame JJ Abrams, in the first movie he tried to set something up and then Rian Johnson ruined everything. Then JJ Abrams now has to come in and try to fix everything in a very small time window. He was given an effectively impossible task. I feel he sort of just gave up.

I could keep going but I think I will stop there.

People still give a shit about the new Star Wars movies?



I'm sorry, but the franchise which is stuck in a rut trying to sell action figures etc that NO ONE wants. Anyway Mando and BABY YODA are leading the way, even Johnny Boyega is done with the new movies, good on him, and I LOVED Pacific Rim Uprising with him in it.

Just bury the Disney Star Wars already...

To be fair, good audience reaction in a cinema from a probably die hard fan community are not easy to get.

As the comic book guy from the Simpsons said:
"Worst movie ever! I am going to watch it only five more times!"

I am actually glad that the Skywalker Saga is over, at least I hope so. You can go into the next movie(maybe ) with no expectations at all. Except if it is a movie about the life of young Leia, a feminist on a suddenly strangely sexist Alderan that was destroyed by the benevolent empire for the sake of freedom for women or something like that...

I hated last jedi.

I enjoyed this one.

@Serpon

Harrier wrote:I am actually glad that the Skywalker Saga is over, at least I hope so. You can go into the next movie(maybe Wink ) with no expectations at all.

Expectations...

Yeah, I expected the rise of skywalker to be a trainwreck... JJ Abrams delivered on my expectations... But having my expectations met, doesn't make it a good movie... ¬.¬


Theres two kinds of expectations generally when people say that that is why people didn't enjoy a film... Expectations on quality and expectation on plot points. And for some reason it always comes out as if the audience are to blame for having expectations that were too high or too unreasonable...

Regarding the first one (quality)... Disney and any film producer that does reboots/remakes/reimaginings of old films/books/comics, do so *because* the franchises are popular and thus everyones expectations are high enough to be exploited for money. If people didn't expect the films to be good *most* of the time, they won't go see the film and then they wouldn't make their money. Its not like Disney brought Star Wars without realizing that people really like them old movies and so they might have high expectations of future movies... They preyed on that fact for money.





Regarding expectations on plot points... In my case, I have to make a distinction between a plot expectation and a plot prediction. A prediction is something that I thought might happen but didn't actually mind if something else happened instead... An expectation was something that I felt *had* to happen otherwise I would be unsatisfied.

Taking Rey's parentage in the last jedi for example... My personal prediction was that Rey would be related to a force user we hadn't seen before, one that was trained by Luke and subsequently killed by Kylo Ren. However I didn't mind if she instead turned out to be a Skywalker or Kenobi etc.. My personal expectation however, was that Rey's parentage would be discovered to be meaningful. I had this expectation because it was hinted that Rey's parents were important to Rey and the story in the Force Awakens. Rian Johnson even played on them expectations in the first half of the Last Jedi, teasing a revelation of Rey's parents and so building on the expectation. The ironic thing is that before I saw the Force Awakens, I predicted that Finn would be the force user and that his parentage wouldn't be important... I thought he'd just have the force awaken within him without any strong jedi family links. It was solely the way the story was crafted that built up a certain plot point expectation...

Similar could be said for all of the other plot expectations I had that were skillfully subverted... The story writer decided to shroud things in mystery to such a degree that it seemed certain that answers and awesome revelations were on the way, but they weren't... Everything that seemed important turned out to be meaningless

I wasn't angry cause Snoke didn't turn out to be Darth Plaegus... I was angry cause the character was meaningless...
I wasn't angry cause Rey wasn't related to a Skywalker... I was angry cause Rey's use of the force wasn't carefully crafted hints to her backstory, it was just: Rey is powerful "cause..."


Obviously JJ Abrams kinda fixed thoses plot expectations in the Rise of Skywalker... But its too late and he was scrambling, the damage had been done.





TLDR: These films aren't bad because they failed to meet our expectations...  These films were just bad fullstop and made poor storyline decisions... As a direct result, they failed to meet expectations that they themselves ensured were there in the first place