Topic: Wrestling?

HORNSWAGGLE NEVER TAINTED THE PRESTIGIOUS NAME OF THE RAW ANONYMOUS GENERAL MANAGER, HE JUST STOLE THE LAPTOP.

How dare you, sir. >FFFF

Tatyina wrote: The inmates were running the asylum from what seemed like the beginning.

This. All of this. Nobody "in charge" of the place had a single goddamn idea what the hell they were doing.

Then Bischoff stole his only good idea from New Japan

and then nobody in charge of the place had a single goddamn idea what they hell they were doing, but they made money despite themselves.

The dungeon of doom storyline with Hogan is a classic tapestry of art for me. Hogan is so bad as an actor in the scene where he discovers the dungeon that he is already brilliant again. Or Shockmaster, who could forget that. The wrestler playing Shockmaster is not even that impossing compared to Earthquake, Vader or Sid Vicious, so beside being hillariously funny, it was doomed from the start. Stunning Steve from the Hollywood Blondes. Jobbers Edge and HHH. Sid with half the brain his opponent had. Harlem Heat with the racist blunder. Funny how at one time, WCW had all the cards in hand to ruin WWF, and still did not manage to do it because one of the few brilliant ideas Vince McMahon ever had struck the gold mine. Wrestling would probably be in a better shape and much more entertaining than it is today if WCW won, although that is of course speculative.

And to be honest, I have seen a wrestler hatch from a giant egg in the middle of the ring whose parents were two wrestlers in NJPW I think, so that perfectly fits in with Robocop/Sting and such shenanigans.

Harrier wrote:
And to be honest, I have seen a wrestler hatch from a giant egg in the middle of the ring whose parents were two wrestlers in NJPW I think

HUSTLE, actually

You know, I let the shot at Lance Storm slide, by not pointing out the massive ego it must take to disregard the opinion of somebody who was actually IN the business for 20 years just because you think you know better.

But after this:

Harrier wrote: Wrestling would probably be in a better shape and much more entertaining than it is today if WCW won, although that is of course speculative.

Whatever slight or small amount of credibility you once had is now gone.

It´s not that I think Lance Storm does not know how to wrestle, or does not know the business. Or that WCW was not that logical. I just think that he does see the thing from a wrestler perspective, not an entertaining perspective, or a business perspective.

As I already said, I agree with anyone who does not want blood or shots to the head, that is not necessary for good entertainment. But good wrestling is, and I am not talking about chain wrestling iron man matches, just about wrestlers being allowed to show good matches. The most recent example is the banning of the curb stomp or the punt, WWE is doing everything they can to make wrestling as stereotye, non-threatening and uniformed as possible. Think of how entertaining Edge and Christian vs the Hardy Boyz would be today...

Or take Bret Hart for example. He had the now banned piledriver in his repertoire and used it fairly often, How many people were hurt? Not one. Fellow wrestlers always complimented Hart how much of a saftey net he spun around them in his matches. Who ended his career?`Goldberg, with a spear, a move everyone and his mother uses in WWE.
So it`s not moves that hurt wrestlers, it´s wrestlers who should not do them cause they don´t have the skill or the training to do it. Undertaker still uses the piledriver, cause he is a veteran and the tombstobe is as much a part of the Undertaker as dark clothes. Daniel Bryan for example is a bonafide wrestler, probably much better than the Undertaker ever was even in his prime, and should not use it? I see a double edged sword here. Even if Vince does not like it, wrestling is entertaining. I am also pretty sure that Vince would not give a shit about moves allowed if WWE was not at the stock market, and a safe product is key for ratings, public image and therefore stock value.
I am probably such a big fan of Cesaro cause he was fresh and entertaining with his european uppercuts, the UFO and his generally impressive skills in the ring for a guy of his size. Remember the reaction he got when he used the Cesaro swing on Miz to punch him against the barricades? Cesaro is just one of the numerous guys in WWE who will never go over when they are uniformed and shoehorned in their wrestling abilities.

WWE has the wrestling market in his hands for 15! years as a monopoly. How can that be healthy for the industry, or any industry? I think we all know the WCW would still be defunct today because of bad management and the dislike of it´s own TV station, and the wrestling market would have much more companies, more equal companies than they have right now, with better work opportunities for wrestlers in general, and more competive programm. Major wrestling PPVs would probably not fill a 70K arena, maybe rather more 25k from 2 or 3 different companies. A much better scenario for me personally.

In general, my point of view is this:
A monopoly with uniformed, business safe decisions entertains you more than a more competetive scene where more companies are closer to each other and have to deliver to have a good market share of viewers? And makes up for a healthy market with equal work opportunities, reasonable prices for merchandise, business wise? I am not talking about WCW and WWE here only, mind you. How would you like it if BP would control nearly all of the worlds oil reserves and charge you 5$ per gallon fuel of lesser quality, the high quaility fuel goes to the military and general motors just because they can?
Sure, not everyone needs wrestling as they need oil, but the point stays the same: Monopolies are bad for any market, and a market even shrinks if the goods are not absolutely necessary like medicine or fuel if the monopoly can´t keep it´s base or even enlarge it. WWE is desperate to branch out with movies and merchandise for product diversity to stay afloat in case wrestling takes an even deeper dive. I am pretty sure that the market with children is a high risk game in any way, even giants like Martel suffer from franchises turning cold like Masters of the Universe, GI Joe or Transformers. WWE is sure to take a big hit in the nuts the day Cena has to call it quits, because as much as I dislike the character, is the only real franchise they have left.
Although usually pretty tight, it is much more easy to please a recurring customer than building from the scratch when your customer base gets to old to enjoy your product. Keep your shares, enlarge(not replace) your base is key, no matter of you´re a neo-liberal or a keynesian type of business person. Break-even-point anyone? These are basically not my words, it´s business 101 as it is thought on business schools everywhere. Sure, Vince probably knows better than I do, but keep on mind that much big companies or whole industries folded or nearly folded about bad desicions where the business should go. Krupp, East Indian trading company, Goldman &Sachs even whole cities like Manchester and Detroit.

My point for wrestling is this:
It was obvious that WCW was bleeding money. They had all the stars on board, people like Hogan and Savage don´t work for peanuts. Turner backed them up, and in the moment that ceased, the end was near. Imagine WWF had been forced to close doors before that happened. The wrestling market was still there and going strong, leagues would have risen to succeeed the defunct WWF and WCW, market shares would probably be more divided and tv stations eager to show Mexican or Japan wrestling.

http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail183.html

Homestar Runner cuts a better promo then most the WWE roster.

I don't think you know what a monopoly actually is. The simple fact that other promotions like TNA, Ring of Honor, Chikara, Jersey All Pro Wrestling, Pro Wrestling Guerrilla, Combat Zone Wrestling, Lucha Underground and others even exist automatically means WWE doesn't have a monopoly on the wrestling business in the states, and if you are saying that WWE has a monopoly world wide, then you're a goddamn idiot.

Thanks to the internet, people who don't like to watch WWE have plenty of options to choose from without watching WWE. Just because WWE has the largest slice of the pie doesn't automatically mean they have a monopoly.


You're entire argument has been pretty badly presented so far, without much point and with plenty of mistakes. (BTW, it wasn't a spear that retired Hart. It was a kick that him in the jaw that caused him to fall and hit the back of his head onto the mat, causing a concussion that he tried to work through, causing more concussions over the next few weeks that caused his retirement months later. Maybe if you actually bothered to watch or follow wrestling instead of thinking reading things on the internet made you an expert, you would have known this,)

But I figured out what you're saying. You're basically taking the longest way possible to say "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if WCW and WWE went out of business and it was just the Indy Leagues that existed!"

Look, if you think that wrestling is just about flashy moves that look cool and if your a fan of the indy leagues, then that's great. Support them with money. They need it. Most of them are barely getting by.

But don't go acting like you're superior or that you know better than other people just because you can read up on backstage stuff online and prefer the indy scene. Don't be an Indy Snob. Those people are assholes.

As for your "world without WWE" idea, there is no guarantee that it would work out the way you describe. Maybe indy's would bloom and flourish and gain mass audiences, or maybe we go from a few dozen indy leagues barely making it to a hundred indy leagues all barely making it. You seem to forget that pro wrestling as a whole has always been looked down on by the general public and tv stations had, for a long time, been wary of showing it. WWE got its big USA time spot because Vince had a lot of money, and WCW got prime time on TNT only because Ted Turner ran everything.

The idea that having the two biggest money makers in the game gone would automatically make tv stations and cable companies desire indy companies is flawed. Think about it, in your idea, two corporate giants with tons of cash and prime TV spots still failed, so why would any TV company think some little indy league that can't afford any big name stars and is barely getting along could do better?

Also, Japanese wrestling is now finally being shown here, thanks to New Japan Pro Wrestling on AXS. It's been popular enough to be given a second and possibly third season, providing another viable alternative to those that want something different. Again, if you were actually a fan, you would have known this.

The next lower step to a monopoly is an oligopol, a few big companies that share the market. Where is the second or third company with comparable levels of market share? I don´t have the numbers at hand, but how big of a share has TNA on the US market? 5%? Take all other competitors, then you generously have what, 15- 20%? Maybe it is not a pure monopoly, but it is probably pretty close.

And no, I am not an indies fan. I never heard of the American Dragon before he became Daniel Bryan, or that he feuded with CM Punk. I go to WWE events when they make a tour here, I even like Randy Orton, a tailormade product of WWE. I am merely not happy with the way main stream wrestling has taken after the year 2007. If that somehow makes me an indies fan, then ok.

If I was wrong about the spear, my mistake. But it actually strengthens my case. Would a kick to the jaw or even tghe face in general not be banned by WWE logic if it would happen to Cena today?